As soon as she stood, I wheeled around behind her and slid into her seat. Now I was finally in the set, and she was lurking awkwardly on the outside. This was the science of approaching perfectly executed, like a good game of chess.[sic]
On a number of occasions, Pickup artists and gurus say that Pickup is a science. It is not. The previous paragraph comes from Style's book – The Game. Style is a pickuper that became number one Pickup guru. So, when I was asked for an opinion about his Challenge, I decided to do it as a peer review – as the corner stone of the scientific publishing process. This Challenge is a self-help book, a later work than The Game. It allegedly contains a proved, step-by-step program to improve your dating success. As read in a product description "the ultimate guide to landing the woman of your dreams from the best of the best".
My decision for the peer review stays on this ground: if people are being led into a belief that Pickup is a science by pickupers, people should be shown then, what the real science would say about Pickup. Note that I do not wish to flat the dead horse by showing the obvious. I'm just afraid that most people have no inkling what the science truly is. Particularly, how demanding it is, to do a science.
Ladies and gentlemen, sit down comfortably, the peer review begins...
Objective
Style's challenge (i.e. your objective) is to get a date in thirty days or less.
First of all, nobody is promised that this book will get him a date. Thus, there are two possible endings. (1) If you don't get a date, it is not Style's fault – you were not promised the date. (2) If you get a date, you credit Style. There is no way a Style could loose, because he did not promise any date. Notice as he just said that's your objective, but made no promise.
So, how does it compare to the following, Ian Rowland's writing on Cold Reading?
In this way, the psychic can defuse all possible skeptical challenges. She is effectively writing her own contract to suit herself. She cannot fail to deliver on her promises, because she has been careful not to make any. Nor has she made any promises on behalf of her particular discipline. She has not said it will reveal truths, solve problems or prove anything at all.
What transparent measures Style took to avoid such scenario? How does it come that Style himself warns us against Cold Reading, while saying that some psychics are trustworthy and some are not (page 104)? Also, on page 108, he tells us to never use Cold Reading in a callous, manipulative way.
Next issue goes with the term date. On page 6, Styles says that "A date is defined as a planned second encounter with a woman you have just met" [sic]. OK, so I went to a brand new greengrocery to buy an apple. But the salesgirl told me that all apples are already sold out for today, but there will be new ones, tomorrow. I know – it is a silly example. But take a look, as it fits Style's definition of date. It fits perfectly. Alternatively, a professionally smiling bartender could be another false positive. Or, a friend might wish to see you again, but have no interest to date you. And Style omits this fact. His so-called definition is vague, and therefore it does not hold up to scientific standards. As a further reading, see Forer effect.
Prize
The company of quality women, the envy of your peers, the lifestyle you deserve.
What woman is quality one? I found no definition. Therefore, there is a problem to evaluate the promise. Style does not tell us how to know, whether we are in a company of at least one quality woman.
Next, what is company? How many? What kind of relationship? Does it go for no-sex friends, lovers, long-term relationships, or just a sexual affair? Even if we would consider a casual small-talk with a group of lost tourists, which ask for a direction to e.g. railway station, it would fit into Style's description. The prize is not given in a concrete terms. It is the same problem as with the objective. Note that using of vague terms leads to Forer effect – a psychological trick, when people find vague terms as concrete ones.
Envy of our peers and lifestyle we deserve... this is a clear appeal on our emotions to accept Style's work. How does Style make sure that he does not exploit emotional stress of lonely men? How does Style make sure that such approach does not affect reported outcome?
Procedure
The procedure comes out of a principle that a man can increase his chances of getting a date, by learning something about social interactions. While this is true, it is nothing new.
Human has the ability to learn from an interaction with other humans. Maneuver a man into a position, when he would interact and he will learn something to increase his chances of achieving his goals.
Basically, Style tries to convince his reader that he will succeed, because Style tells him some working principles. As given on page 3: It's simply what works best and fastest. I do not agree with Style for several reasons:
- Style propagates Pickup, which includes several dating myths – i.e. assumptions, which do not hold. Moreover, Pickup originated on the pseudoscientific concept of Neuro-Linguistic Programming. Style recommends NLP on page 60, law 6.
- On page 11, Style discussed a so-called limiting belief "I'm not good-looking, rich, or famous enough to be with a beautiful woman." Since Style does not claim that this book will make anybody (except Style, perhaps?) rich and famous, we end up with the question of a good look. Starting with page 26, there are missions for days 4 and 5. These missions are targeted on look improvements – not limited to hairs, clothes and accessories. Well, the tailor makes the man. But... Why does Style write this, if he claims, just 25 pages ago, that a care about one's look is a limiting belief?
- On page 34, Styles says about the approach anxiety: Psychologically speaking, it's less a fear of approaching than a fear of rejection. While the symptoms of approach anxiety correspond with increased dopamine level, and dopamine is linked with reward and danger, it does not justify the claim given by Style. What proves the idea that fear of approach is not driven by fear of rejection? Note the difference that Style makes.
- On page 48, Style claims this:
Smile when you approach. Even if a grin does not come naturally, fake it. It predisposes the woman or group you're about to engage to respond positively. On a subconscious level, it signals that you're a friend and not an enemy.[sic]
First, sincere smile contracts two muscles – zygomaticus major (mouth) and orbicular oculis (eyes). Therefore, it is easy to say when you fake the sincere smile. Therefore, there's no guarantee that the group will respond as Style says.
Second, what is the subconscious level? How does it relate to current scientific understanding of brain? In academy and science, this word is not used. However, it is being used in the already mentioned pseudoscientific NLP. - On page 48, Style perpetuates Mystery's view on energy in the seduction process. Mystery taught Style the so-called art of Pickup. The following is not the only reference to some energy.
Your energy level should be equal to or slightly higher than the woman or group you're approaching.[sic]
How is this concept different from the pseudoscientific energy that is used by so many healers to produce alleged physiological effects, while producing nothing, but a placebo effect in some cases? How does Style measure the energy and in which, SI-compatible units? Supposedly, this information is not given. - On page 59, in second law of learning, Style claims:
There is no such thing as rejection, only a feedback.
If you posses the ability to learn from your mistakes, then failure is impossible, because each rejection brings you closer to perfection.[sic]
Both statements ignore reality. An engaged, loyal woman that is in love with somebody else will reject you, no matter what you would do. More likely, a woman may reject you just because she does not find you physically attractive. In addition, the first statement redefines meaning of the word rejection to a something else. - On pages 60 and 61, laws 8 and 9, Style says this:
Don't look to friends or family for approval.
Be willing to test new ideas, even if they don't seem logical.[sic]
Why should not I ask my own family, or friends, for an independent opinion? How does it compare to Milieu Control [144], i.e. a concept that participates in a process of brainwashing, as described by psychologists?
Why should I do something that is not logical, i.e. there is no reasonable evidence that it is worth doing it? How does it compare to the concept of Open Mind, as described e.g. in [84]? - On page 76, Style recommends so-called Huna-way philosophy to strengthen the concept of so-called Inner Game. Not only there are objections against Pickup concept of inner-game, the Huna philosophy states, as Style writes: The world is what you think it is. In other words, he tells us to ignore reality. Thus, not to be objective.
- On page 78, Style recommends the New-Age, pseudoscientific energy based Emotional Freedom Technique [96].
- On page 92, Style gets to the Evolution and evolutionary biology. First, he recommends reading an excerpt on Matt Ridley's The Red Queen. A Pickup artist wrote the excerpt. Second, Style says this:
Your assignment is to read the report and discover the evolutionary logic behind many of the things you've been doing this month.[sic]
Looking at the previous objections to pseudoscience, which Style recommends in his book, I see no reasonable evidence that Styles understand the scientific topics himself, in the first place. Subsequently, it is reasonable to assume that a reader, who did not spot the objections, will fail to properly discover the evolution behind as well.
As I've reached 10 issues with the procedure, I stop pointing on remaining ones and continue with risks.
Risks
While Style's book contains several reasonable techniques, they have been known even long before the Pickup community was born. An unknowing reader is not told, so he can attribute them as a Pickup contribution mistakenly, and fall for Pickup mistakes subsequently.
Style propagates the Pickup community, which leads a man to belief that it is an admirable lifestyle to have sex with as many women as possible. This belief ignores sexually transmitted diseases apparently. Consider high-risk strains of human papillomavirus (HPV). Thanks to the high occurrence of HPV in the population, isn't it likely that you will end up with one of these strains, if you would follow such lifestyle successfully?
I understand that Pickup artists do not discuss their health condition. However, I see it as a fair and moral principle to let the people to know the increased risks of having many sexual partners. The HPV high-risk strains may develop into a cancer and there is no cure, just a vaccination against two (out of much many more) high-risk strains only.
On the other hand, I would not say that Pickup works so good for one to be in a grave danger, unless you pick easy girls. However, it is about probabilities and the risk is real. See references [156, 157, 158] for details.
On page 33, Style writes:
Control your caloric intake and review your diet to limit saturated fats, refined sugars, excess salt, and food high in preservatives and carbohydrates. Eat fresh fruits, vegetables, and lean protein. If you're more than forty percent over you should be, consult a doctor about weight loss options.[sic]
What leads Style to a conclusion that it is safe to alter someone's diet, when he is not over the forty percent, while Style knows nothing more about his present health condition?
Book's preface states that solely the reader is responsible for any harm that may result from using any advice from the book.
Evidence
I found none. I found only subjective stories without any scientific control over experiment variables.
References
On page 193, Style writes:
The Stylelife Challenge is the result of lessons from thousands of approaches, years of camaraderie with the master pickup artists from The Game, feedback from students around the world, hundreds of books and research papers, and the contributions of the Stylelife Academy coaching team.[sic]
Despite the hundreds of research papers, Style did not gave a single citation of a scientific research paper. Let alone to be it a correct citation from a peer-reviewed journal with an impact factor.
Instead, Style gave nicks of pickup artists – the community who acknowledged his position as a number one of pickup artists. I see a clear bias there.
Conclusion
As already noted, an ordinary man can learn from social interactions, including rejections. Subsequently, he can get a date on his own, as he learns to avoid mistakes he did. Style does not present a convincing material that an ordinary man would get a date because of Style's book. Neither methodology nor presented subjective testimonies are convincing as an objective proof.
Moreover, Style has done a number of offences against an objective publishing of facts, as science understands objectivity. This review contains only a selection of major offences.
S T R O N G R E J E C T
This review applies to first edition from 2007.
Hi,
I’m 19 and I have a serious problem – I cannot get a closer relationship with a girl. As I’ve heard and was told, some women consider me as sexy and attractive. Also, I’ve been told that girls talk about me. Towards women, I behave with respect and kindly. I take care about my appearance and talk.
Every time I’m attracted to a girl, I try to get some details about her first. But, whenever I go forward, I loose my interest as she demonstrates hers, so I don’t consider her special any more. It happened to me about five times. If she hits on me by herself, then I no longer consider her special as well. Like if she is just another ordinary girl. However, I don’t want an ordinary girl – I want my princess for which I would do anything.
About two years ago, I used to approach 3-5 girls a month. Since that time, I figured out my requirements. It takes me 5 minutes to know, whether she fits them or not. I’m quite ambitious and that’s the heart of my problem.
I like to have a small talk with girls, but it usually ends there as I find something I don’t like – too different opinions, smoking, in the worst case she takes drugs, or she stays in touch with such people. It could be that I look for Miss Right the right way, although I cannot describe it. However, even when I found such girl, she broke with me, or I lost my interest. So, we talk about one girl per month, or two.
I’ll tell you about a date that hurts me most. Even today, I’m upbraid with myself for being so naïve and too sure.
In school, I noticed a girl. She looked perfect, so I wanted to know her. First, I asked one of her friends, what he thinks about her. His answer pleased me, so I set up an appointment. I guessed, when she goes back home from school, so I appeared “by an accident” and offered a ride home. She smiled and accepted. Halfway, I said that I needed to buy something to buy me a time to get to know her more. She agreed and we went shopping. Eventually, I introduced myself and got her name.
We talked about school, what she likes to do, and such general topics. Everything was fine. I took her home and asked for a phone number, in the end. She said that her phone is broken (an excuse, I would say), but she offered her ICQ number. I accepted. She told me to rather write it down, but said that I can remember it. Once she was out of sight, I stored it in my cell phone.
Two dates later (Friday), I put her into my contact list and send her a message. I introduced myself. We talked for about two hours, until she said she had to go. I made my first mistake, a mistake I was not aware at that time, and asked her for a date to take a walk on Saturday. Of course, she had her plans. Fortunately, she counter-offered with Sunday afternoon. I agreed and we set up a particular time and place.
I thought about the upcoming date for whole weekend and was a little bit nervous about it. She had not logged onto ICQ since we set the date, I did not had her phone number and I was afraid that she won’t come. In fact, she arrived few minutes earlier (at 2 pm). We walked few blocks talked about general topics again – what’s new, about yesterday, etc.
As we got back to the meeting point, a decision where to go next lied ahead. I could care less and she seemed so as well. We took a walk on a river’s bank and talked. It started to rain, so we took a shelter under a nearby roof. Since she talked much more than I did, I had no problem with the communication. She let me know that I look like her favorite Friends actor – Ross. I thought it played my cards.
It stopped raining and I offered two variants: we either would walk back (2-3 km), or go in an opposite direction into a hypermarket (4 km). She chose the hypermarket to get some chocolate. I love chocolate, so I said “super” to me. In the mean time, we got to other topics such as experience, dreams and wishes – it was my idea.
On the way, we met her ex. She just said hello to him with a smile and we continued. At 4 PM, we were at the place. I bought some chocolate and drink and we sat for a while. As we were about to leave, I gave her two choices – to walk back, or to use a bus. It was a nice weather, so she chose the walk.
On our way back, we talked about us. She told me, how she feels nice with me for several times. I had no better idea than to reply with “I too”. Afterwards, I took her by the hand and we held until we get back.
At 6 PM, we were at her home. Her mom wanted her to go home, she told her mom the she will walk the dog and do some shopping. So we went, without holding our hands now.
A then I made an amateurish mistake – I asked for another date. “I don’t know” was her answer. As it was getting late, 8 pm, she took the shopping and dog home. We spent another hour together and it got more intimate – sex.
As her mom urged her to get home, we set for leave and I accompanied her to the house. I disposed my chewing gum and saw she did the same. We kissed. It was a nice, long, passionate French kiss with a tender embrace. I was so happy that later that evening I sent her a message that it was great and asked for another date. Her response stood with “I don’t know” and “I have to go”.
The very next day, she was like a different person. Like if anything of yesterday ever happened. Since that time, we barely say hello to each other. About half year later, I asked what went wrong. She told that I pressed her. I took my lesson from that, because I have to meet her every day. An imagination as we could be together today, it tears my heart apart.
It may be that I have a problem in communication with women, or it’s another problem. Anyway, it torments me.
Thanks for your insight,
Scare, who would like to fix his "problem"
Hi,
Right in the beginning, I can tell you that this is no unsolvable problem. Moreover, you’ve started soon to work it out in time. Till she’s younger than 23, it is better to view it as an experience than a relationship that will last over centuries. Mostly, man dates a younger woman – this gives you enough time to better yourself.
And you do other things right as well – you want Miss Right, you realize that not every babe is Right, you care about your outlook and talk and mainly you don’t run away from problems. So, what does keep you down? Let’s find out.
Your desire for a dream princess for which you would do anything, it is a witness that you still entertain some romance ideas, which regretfully don’t work in the real world. This is the first reason.
The second reason is hidden within the number of approaches. Three to five girls per month is definitely something to improve. As you exclude smokers, alcoholics and other bad choices, there’s no wonder you end with one girl per month, or two. And that she is not the one you are looking for. You have to increase the number of approaches. I know, to many guys, your efforts might look good, but if you would like to measure the time to get Miss Right in months, without considering a fluke, you have to approach at least 30 girls per month. For instance, 4 through Monday to Friday and 4 per weekend. This can be done.
Overall, you have the right idea about dating principles. Thus, the third reason stands for mistakes in your performance. Let’s take a closer look at them.
Rather than to impersonate a chauffeur, it would be better to approach her as she would go from a bus, a train, or whatever she planed to use. Subconsciously, you presented yourself as Mr. Nice Guy who cares too much and therefore he doesn’t earn her respect. And without respect, she cannot love you. Not speaking about an idea to ride alone with a stranger in his car, who he wants it too much. Rejection chances were too high.
Cellular phone doesn’t break while one waits and it works most of the time. Very probably, it was an excuse. And if it was for sure, she did not have a positive interest level, or she is not flexible and therefore Right. On the other hand, she offered her ICQ number and that’s a form of communication too. However, to sign up for an ICQ account, you need to have an e-mail account. Why did not she give you both? E-mail address is far easier to remember than an ICQ UIN is. She did not try much to meet you again. It doesn’t look lie a very high interest level to me.
Sure, you might have a more cunning plant that to take just a walk. A nice restaurant would be better than a gallivanting along. It was a mistake to ask for Saturday. At least, there is a chance that she’ll already have other plans. Fortunately, she counter offered Sunday afternoon and that was OK.
It is nice that you were able to talk about common things such as what’s new, what she did yesterday, school, weather, etc., but man, I’ve got bored just by reading that! If you wanna stand out of the mass, use humor. Experience, dreams and wishes were a better choice. Anyway, as she handled most of your communication, she felt comfortable with you. Her reaction about her ex gives the same evidence.
You remind her Ross, the nice guy. A very probably, not just by your look. You’ve asked for her decision too much times. Self-confident man is decisive. If she does not agree, she is free to come up with a counter idea and than you can make a compromise. Other than that, and you ask her for permission. It kills her respect for you. You’ve furthermore build your nice guy image by parroting back, how nice you feel with her too. She had to learn that from your reactions. And moreover, she already felt nice;-) I advise you to read the article about Exploit.
The rest was nothing but a rushing in way too fast. If she has high interest level, she won’t forget you. Regarding touching on the first date, see The First Kiss article.
Next, you have to learn when to end the date. Have you noticed that her mom, dog and shopping had higher priority than you? You should have kissed her and get out of the scene, without trying to plan next date. As you’ve learned it was a mistake.
You can have a sex even if the interest level is low. And frankly, nothing has convinced me that her interest level was high. Yet, if we try to consider it as high, it was so near to the breaking point that even small mistake could turn it in into a low one. Your final message guaranteed the low interest level.
So she said you’ve pressured her too much? It was true, among others. She has so high interest level that she sleeps with you and few hours later, she’s not sure, whether she wants to see you again. Don’t get down with an idea how you could be together today, if you would do everything right. With this girl, you stood no chance for a long term relationship.
it might look like a high interest level.
SomeoneCZ
Hello,
From time to time, I read you articles and find interesting ideas there. I would like to ask you for an advice. Judging by your articles, you are the one, who could help me. Here's my dilemma:
I am 20, after one long-term relationship and several one night stands. It is about a month, since I met my current girl; she's 22. We met on a party, where she asked for my contact and I gave it to her. During next week, we exchanged several text messages and set up a date. The date took about an hour. There was a classic beginning and getting to know her better, as I am used to. I felt she did not like that much, yet she thanked me for the invitation several times. I was knocked up that day and even two coffees did not put me into a shape. Well, it was a standard conversation. No buttering – I even did not comment her look, although she complimented mine.
Following week passed by without a contact, not that I wonder that. Then, I wrote her that I would like to see here again. She answered the same, but added that she does not know when, as she's busy. I said to myself – she's rejecting you… not wondering much – I proposed two or three other dates and she agreed to the last one.
All the time, I kept saying to myself: "don't blow it up, she's great". I bought a posy on Saturday's morning for the evening. As we arranged, I picked her after the work and we went to pizzeria. At the end of the date, I gave her the flowers. She almost broke through the roof of my car, as she was happy. She thanked me a lot and said that I surprise her more and more. We kissed several times for the good bye; she kissed me more than I kissed her. On the next day, she sent me a message how much she enjoyed the date and that it was her best date.
I feel that she's the best girl I ever met. I have this feeling although I spent several hours with her only. And here comes my question – how should I continue? My plan is simple: I asked her out twice, so she's on the turn now. If she will not ask me out in 3-4 days, I'll have to ask her anyway.
Thanks for your insight
John, who wants know, when she will ask him out
Hi John,
We can see the high interest level right in the beginning – she wanted your contact. I just hope that she started the messaging, not you, and that you did not let it grow out of control. However, you had a date, although it took one hour only. If you have fun, one hour passes away without getting noticed. It is an open question, why she was not happy much – were you interrogating her too much, or could we blame your fatigue? Everyone can be tired sometime, just leave it out for dates, especially the first one. However, she complimented you look – the sign of high interest level.
Although she still had high interest level after the first date, it was lower than on its beginning. How do I know? It's the week of radio silence. First, she wanted the contact, then the messages came and then a sequel in a form of radio silence. If you were able to avoid contacting her for the whole week, I assume that she started sending those messages before your first date.
What have you meant by the "I'd like to see you" message? We have the telephone so that you can call her, not to have a textual conversation. Writing is 10% of entire message only. Voice takes 40% and the rest is the body talk.
Why did you offer so many dates? It makes you look desperate. If she does not want, she does not want. She was supposed to come up with a particular counteroffer.
And how about the posy? Why did she accept the date – was it because of you, or because of a gift? As long as you can make her laugh, you don't need to buy her. Sure, time to time, you can buy her a gift, but for a second date? That's way too soon. How could you know that she won't interpret it as an attempt to buy her interest level? You could not. You were lucky. Or you did a lot of other things right – I would bet on this. Look at this – as you are not tired, you push her interest level far higher than on the first date. Just the count of kisses, she gave you, confirms this. Her interest level was higher after the second date than before the date. And if we take the following message into account, we can say significantly higher.
You made some mistakes, but you did most things right. So far, she has high interest level.
Regrettably, emotions take control over your decisions. Just after two weeks, how could you know that she's the best girl you've ever met? You give her credit way too soon and she has not earned it yet.
You were able to withstand the week of radio silence and she has to call you right after 3-4 days? Isn't it a little bit hasty? Use the week delay to your advantage. Stop rushing things up and start doing circa week delays yourself. If she has high interest level, she won't forget you. Moreover, you'll give her the opportunity to call you and to risk a rejection. That will up her interest level, because people don't give away things easily, if they risked for them.
Her upbringing plays an important role here. If she's old-school girl, she will wait for you to ask her out. If you give up, somebody else will take her on a date. You have to be patient and wait somewhat longer, until she begins to ask for dates. Strategy "I've asked you twice, it's your turn now" does not necessarily lead to a success. It could be no go.
Expect her to ask you out too soon, and you could loose her.
SomeoneCZ
Hi,
I read your articles and I have to say it – you’re right almost all the time. And now to my question…
I’ve entered a romance with 12-years older, married woman. It is not for the first time, but this time I fell for her. In the beginning, I was mysterious, challenging, interesting – exactly as you describe the man, for whom women long. Although she fell for me, she has relatively functional marriage (as it is after 15 years). I am a realist and I know that she is not gonna leave him and I would not want her to do that – it would work for couple of years only.
We see each other for three months now and there’s one rendezvous per week only. It takes one hour, or two, of a wild sex – too short to my taste. Otherwise, we communicate frequently – an hour and half over a phone is not a problem… Well, and that’s where I made a mistake. I opened myself too much and put her into a leading position. It’s not as if I called, or wrote, her first – on contrary. But it seems to me that she does not try to get in touch as she used to. I know, she’s married and she cannot do whatever she wants to do. By the way, her husband went reasonably suspicious because of the communication frequency and that means additional difficulties.
My question is how to become Mister IRRESISTIBLE AGAIN and is that still possible?
Oh yeah, I suppose you’re gonna write to leave her, as it has no future. Head knows, heart does not.
Arnold,
Who fell for married woman
Hi Arnold,
Mysterious, challenging and interesting, that’s only a part of the man that can keep woman’s high interest level. And as you could verify, even only this can do a lot.
Here, I could dedicate a piece of the text to the question, if I’m right almost all the time only. We could analyze other stories – and we could find out, that I’m right all the time. Even as I risk a prig label with such statement, I show you an important trait that helped you and that will help you again – you think about what you hear and you don’t take everything as a clear truth.
With respect to the communication frequency, we could assume she really has high interest level in you. And if we add the sexual exercises (with associated risks), we could continue with a supposition that your interest level is higher than husband’s one. So far, we meet the condition for her to love you to exist. However, she was not about to leave her husband – otherwise she would spare the “divorce” word at least;-) This is a clear sign of your hot lover calculating without remorse.
Anytime a woman cuts the contact frequency, her interest level slides down. Her husband could not prevent entire communication with you – by phone for instance. When she really wants, she finds a way. Her marriage could stand as the reason for reduced number of your sexual encounters, but not as a reason for the change of her reactions, when she had an opportunity to talk to you. Talking over phone is just another way to be together, when you cannot be together physically. Perhaps, you spent too much time on the phone, until you were no better than her husband and so her interest level in you headed south.
But there is one question hanging above this version. Having a higher interest level, even love, in you than in her husband, how is it possible that she does not want to leave him? What if she never had high interest level in you? What if she just liked you physically and the husband was so boring? In that case, you were nothing but a welcomed amusement, until it became just another stereotype. And since she might felt green at that time, it looked like a high interest level – but there was none.
For 15-years, she is in a relatively working marriage, yet she purposely commits adultery. She uses her husband, so she can use another man – you, for instance. If she would have satisfying marriage, she would not get in with you to end it. You were destined as her amusement only. So the rules were set.
Even a non-loyal, moral integrity missing woman can have high interest level. Do not forget – she is not Right – this one calculates her profit and risks without remorse. For instance, as you are 12-years younger, you are a fine reason for her fears of being left for somebody younger. Could it happen? If she would prefer you, she would make a nice proof herself.
You don’t expect her to leave the husband for you and I agree. Having any interest level in you, do not expect her to endanger the marriage intentionally because of you. There are too many benefits for her than to end it. Do you remember her reaction, when her husband became suspicious? Start to behave as in the beginning, when she wanted to be with you – i.a. lower frequency of your communication. From the practical point of view, you will lessen the risks of being caught – something she should appreciate. Anyway, you cannot salvage dropping interest level by pressuring her. The good news is that she still can have a sex with you, even if her interest level is low. However, there are two possible scenarios you cannot prevent:
- She will evaluate the affair as too risky and subsequently end it to save other investments.
- She really had high interest level in you, but new lover will come – the one in whom she’ll be interested more. And here we go with a) variant.
In such situation, some would consider a desperate act of revealing the affair to her husband, to rip her off him. There are too many risks associated with it. She can interpret this as revenge, her husband might want to revenge on you as a cuckold and nobody can guarantee they will split even after this. When I read your letter, I’m glad you don’t want to do it.
SomeoneCZ
Hello,
I am one of regular readers and I have to tell you – I agree with your articles, opinions and reactions on an occasional criticism. Since I have a time-intensive job, I don’t have a lot of opportunities to meet someone (and when I go somewhere, it gets odd… I know, the problem is within me) and the on-line dating is nothing I’m want to try.
I have to admit, I miss my “second half”. It turns me crazy! In my opinion, I do many things wrong – and I dare to say, I state this with a clear mind. On the other hand (no exaggeration or bragging), I look fine (sometimes, girls compliment me on this and I care for my look), but I don’t know, how to use it and that’s the problem! Simply said, I don’t know how to talk with girls, about what to talk, and when I seem to have a success, it last only a moment, before I blow it up.
I’m 25, but I feel as a bird brain with girls – I have problems to captivate their attention. I go to have a fun on weekends and that involves some alcohol, which is not the best tool to intrigue her. Sometimes, I have no problems with the first contact, but I always blow it up. Mostly, I don’t say proper things, thinking what I said wrong, but I’m no Yoder, nor playing a dab… I really don’t know, what’s wrong. Also, I do basic mistakes, not being creative, don’t know what to say and there are an awkward moments of silence… and it goes on, this way.
Trying to remember the last negative experience, I made… I see the problem as I address a woman. For instance, I see her and try to make up a funny, original greeting – to say how bonny I am, wearing a smile (not to play the dab). Perhaps, there is a bad intonation. Often when I speak, it looks like I’m loosing my voice. Then, when I ask her, she refuses – gently, but mostly. Prior that, I know she was looking after me… Generally, I did not put a grade on this, until recently – it starts to pester me.
I make the first contact in a form of an invitation to a drink. I know, I asked for the phone number too soon. When the first contact is fine, I think about everything to keep her attention. But the results are not always positive. After I visited the web portal, I realized what I done wrong.
The last experience: with a male friend of mine, we went around a bar wearing a smile – I noticed two girls looking after us. We said hello, they responded, but as we wanted to continue, they gave as clear signal “not interested”. So, we left, but I don’t think we did something wrong. Then, I see some guys (I hardly believe they stand a chance) to have a fun – what are we doing so bad, we don’t have a success?
I try to talk about relaxing themes – work, studies, hobbies, etc. I do not try to wheedle too much (to avoid an image of one-night hunter) – just to be OK somehow. I did many mistakes, as you’ve described them in your articles, and I try to eliminate them furthermore. My problem lies right at the beginning, whatever the place is – street, bar, disco or whatever. The truth is, I react on everything a girl says. I have a problem with this – I react before I think of my response. Often, I say something she does not like, or she expects a different answer – I let my self to be caught off-guards.
Thanks for your answer,
Robert, who wants to stop doing mistakes
Hi Robert,
It is important to realize that you can get into an “out of luck” situation from time to time. It can happen to anybody, no matter what he is alike. Nevertheless, this is no excuse for a persistent nonsuccess. If you want to better yourself, you cannot take this as an excuse at all. So, let’s get to review, what you can do better.
A time-intensive job does not give you many opportunities to meet someone. Many people use this to justify their unwanted loneliness. Those, who did not let them self down, try the on-line dating, or they find a time to have some fun with other people on weekend nights – just as you do. It is great, you don’t give it up.
Internet dating sites are not for you, as you say, but you admit you react sooner than you think about your reaction. Internet gives you an opportunity to fight this. While writing your response, you have a plenty of time to think about the text thoroughly. Of course, on-line dating has its pros and cons. But that’s for a standalone article. Nevertheless, try it. At least, it is an experience, even if nothing should come out of this. When writing, you don’t see her body language, or hear her voice, so you have to deal with an incomplete information. When talking live, you have to keep your emotions not to overrun you “only”.
Another positive trait – you care for your look. And another one – you can speak to unknown women. Do you know how many people have problems just to come to an unknown woman and talk to her? But, what do you say to up her interest level? If you start to feel desperate, don’t loose the positive thinking – see the article named “The Moral”.
Let’s take a look at the approach. You complain about a lack of creativity. Well, the creativity is a double-edged weapon. One edge can help you, but the other one can turn on you – when you come up with something wrong. Think about all your approaches and find common traits. Then, choose the successful ones only and use them in future conversations. When you’ll have enough of them, you can combine them as a puzzle and you won’t need to think about something new to say. Unless you are after the very same girls, they cannot tell the difference;-)
The voice problems result from an anxiety – you don’t believe in you success enough. And once again, it is great you don’t give it up. This problem will pass with time, when you will not be afraid of a rejection. It is normal to be rejected more often than to be accepted, when talking about a real high interest level.
A drink invitation is not going to work always. Respectively, when dealing with a mercenary and adequately expensive drink, it will work. But you have no interest in these. You are not the only one, who uses this tactic. Girls can be bored with this. Moreover, Miss Right won’t like it as she might get an impression you’re trying to buy her. From her point of view, the ideal first contact should be completely effortlessness and casual. For instance, you meet her on your ways to the bar – you have a common goal. She does not need to know, there’s more going on behind the scene. Or, she is having her drink somewhere, go to her, say hello and start talking. You can easily camouflage the awkward silence and the thinking time with drinking. When you are finished with your drinks, you go to the bar for another shot – once again, you have a common goal.
What to talk about? Always, be positive, nothing serious and never ever comment her look. Even if you cannot think about anything else to say, tell her you admire the way she holds the glass, but never comment her look. She knows how she looks and she is already bored with this by the other guys.
It might seem interesting to talk about a song being played. However, it usually turns into a serious debate, little longer into a monolog. To talk about lyrics is like to discuss a poem in the English lecture. It is much better to comment her reaction on the song. Even, if there is none, she can answer easily and therefore there’s a high chance she will – she will start to talk to you. Or, make up a rumor about the band. Something obviously fabricated, but funny. Something so funny, she will talk to you. Something, what will allow you to develop the fabricated story with her feedback. Now, you’ll have to push on your creativity. However, you can do this at home as a part of preparation for a party. Make up several stories and next time use only those parts, which worked as desired.
When she’s having a fun with you, and you’re at the best, ask for the phone number and go. If she really enjoyed your company, has high interest level and is available for you, she’ll give you the number, so you can continue some next time. If not, you’re not gonna loose time on a project without a perspective.
It is a risky business to talk about a job, or studies. There is nothing relaxing about it, if she does not enjoy it. There might be troubles with her boss, or there could be a hard exam ahead. Hobbies are far better, but it has to come naturally into a discussion – she should mention it. See the previous procedure – when having a fun, say: "It seems to me like you enjoy...". Or, when you anticipate her opinion on something, say it so she can agree. Just don’t push it to in the form of a form.
The last experience – and did they really look at you? Or, they could just have been having a fun at your bill. Some women can try to put you into a situation you cannot win. In such case, don’t event bother to try – that’s the best you can do about it. However, don’t use it as an excuse for everything.
As I don’t have a detailed record from a first contact, when she rejected you later, I cannot tell, what exactly is wrong. Nevertheless, it seems that you have the right approach, but you rush in way too fast. Since you are not able to eliminate all bugs in your plans on-the-fly, you should spend some time on a preparation prior the action. If you do this repeatedly for some time, people call it an experience;-) However, to see the effect, you need to learn to keep your head cool, not to respond immediately.
SomeoneCZ
There is a lot of buzz around the first kiss. There is even a saying that woman will decide, whether she wants, or does not, to stay with a man right by the first kiss. Although, it is a non-sense, it is a good excuse to explain the theory first.
You had a date for one, single reason – she decided that she wanted to be with you (and you have not even kissed her yet ;-). So, let us be picky a little – let us to want her to have a high interest level, if she wants to date us. There is a primary condition for the high interest level to exist – you have to pass a test of your physical attractiveness to her. And how do you find, if you qualify? Easily – kiss her. If she flinches, you failed to pass. Otherwise, you are in the game. This the first reason for the first kiss – to find out, if you are physically attractive enough for her. Second reason – it is a clear signal that you are not after a friendship. Keep reading – there is a third reason as well. She can have the high interest level, but she may be structured. In such case, she will flinch, because she does not kiss on the first date with anybody and she will not change her rules just because of you. Would you like to live with a dictator, who refuses to compromise?
When to Kiss Her
If you are after a long-term relationship with Miss Right, sex does not have the highest priority. Simply said, it is hard to do it all your free time, day by day. Moreover, she has more talents than the bedroom ones and she knows that. So, now you know, why you will not pursue her, like a wasp goes after a sweet, but you will wait until the end of the first date. With that, you are giving her enough of space, so she can show her feelings towards you. Use this "free time" to guess her interest level in you.
Is She Ready for the Kiss?
There are many tests, how to find out, whether she is ready, or not. Hair test, touch test, whispering test and may be, even a tire test could be used with a little bit of fantasy…. All these tests have one thing in common – there are people, who don’t have enough of self-confidence and therefore they seek a feeling of guarantee. If they would not be afraid of a rejection, they would not have the need for such testing.
For the first time at the end of the first date, when a gentleman is about to kiss Miss Right, he knows that he is good enough for her. And he will show his self-confidence. He will not react overcautiously like a small boy, who let his emotions to overrun him. Gentleman kisses Miss Right without the testing. Simply – he does it.
Active testing for the kiss-ready state shows a low self-confidence and it has been known as a reason for lowering her interest level.
If you need a help anyway, watch her reactions. She is ready, when she feels comfortable. Body language can tell this. Or, the simple fact she's smiling. And beside all of that, she is still free to kiss you first. Nevertheless, even if you do not see any positive signs, kiss her anyway, when you have the high interest level. The chances are that you won't be executed on a police department's backyard, as a warning to others.
Of course, do not try to kiss her, when she handles a phone call, speaks to someone else, or if she keeps a distance from you.
Just do not forget, not every babe will really like your physical appearance enough, So, she can flinch, even if you do everything right. And, under certain circumstances, some girls will let you touch, but no kissing. If Miss Right harbors romantic feelings for you, she wants to kiss and hold by hands. Notice the difference, when compared to a woman that might behave in a sexually arousing manner, yet with a noticeable shortage of given kisses. Like if you are nothing more but a piece of meat for a sex to such woman – a toy for boredom.
The Technique
I've already discussed the sex – thus, no french kissing. The only time for the french kissing is, when she responds this way. If she does not respond to your kiss, do not continue. You already have your information, so do not push it. Remember, what happened to the sheriff, who pushed John Rambo ;-)
A nice breath is a matter of course, if she has to kiss on her free will. To prevent a strange taste combination in you mouths, which certain ingredients may produce, when mixed this way, adapt your menu to hers. When you call the chewing-gum guard to arms, give her enough time to dispose of the gum prior the kissing.
Keep the saliva production at the lowest necessary level for keeping you alive, no herpes, and no dry or cracked lips.
The best place to kiss is in the privacy. Ideally, you accompany her almost to her house, you stop several feet before the door and you let her to finish anything, she might to want to tell you. If suitable, make a short replica and smile, if it fits the situation. Put one of your arms around her waist, leave the second arm alone not trying a Peggy Bundy's trick for Al's wallet, and kiss her. I mean to touch her lips with yours with closed eyes. Approximately after a second, stand off into the default position prior the kiss. Do it in slow motion, no stress and casually – there's no need to hurry the moment. Follow with a smile, say goodbye and go home.
Ending like this is a perfect demonstration of self-confidence. You assume that she wants to see you again. Moreover, it demonstrates your self-control as well – that you don't let yourself to be overran with emotions. And for the future, it shows you cannot be controlled via newly bought Victoria's secret underwear. For instance. Mainly, you let her die with a desire for your next kiss. Do you ask why it would work? Because such tender kiss is a romantic one.
In the real life, the ideal conditions do not come up, as you need them. You have to take care of them. Pay attention, when choosing a restaurant, and plan where to kiss her for the first time. Would you like a romantic night with stars shining above you? Consider the weather forecast. Pay attention to details, if you want to perform a great show. Results are worth the efforts.
When practicing, try to meet the ideal conditions as much as possible. It might happen that you have not kissed yet and you're already at a station, from where each of you departs in an opposite direction. Frankly, it is not ideal, but you can still kiss her, if she is interested. Of course, it is better to stand away from other passengers. Some girls will tell you, they won't kiss under such circumstances. They will, if they are flexible and interested. Sometimes, they'll even kiss your first.
Saying good bye does not mean a love confession, or thanks for the technique and for showing up. Or, telling her she's beautiful, but you already have to go. If you have to, then go. Asking, when you will see her again, it's like driving an aspen spike through a vampire's heart. She almost took you home, kissed you, and now you're de-facto asking, if she still wants to see you again. However, there are guys gladly doing these mistakes and other guys gladly telling them to do so. To say good bye really means to say just the words of good bye. Every other mentioned stuff shows a low self-confidence, and how much she can be sure of you – both lower her interest level.
when you kiss her with self-confidence,
and when you need to make sure it is OK with her.
Image Notice: Cary Grant and Ingrid Bergman in Alfred Hitchcock's Notorious movie.
Hi,
Until some time ago, I had no relationship, never kissed a girl and the same went for the sex. Recently, I met a girl. We had two dates. After the first one, I fell in love with her – at least, I think so. We held by hands for a while, when I accompanied her home. We did not kiss on any date. I don’t know, I have not noticed any sign. Therefore I ask, was it a mistake? Should I try to kiss her on a next date? I thought about asking her, if I can – I don’t know, perhaps I saw it, or read, somewhere.
How should I look on the fact that she asked me on my previous relationships on the third date? I told her the truth. She admitted one longer relationship, followed by a confession she is not looking for a long-term relationship right now, that we should rather be friends. Anyway, she asked for a next date.
Thanks for your input,
Anthony, who does not want to loose her
Hi Anthony,
It is a usual that you’re so excited from the first dates. Especially, as you are satisfied with the progress. Nevertheless, there’s a lack of perspective of yours. Two dates are too short to talk about a relationship. You don’t have enough information yet. Look, you can be in love so soon, but it is no reason to let your emotions to take the control. The emotions are widely responsible for decisions, which cost you Miss Right.
The first kiss is an effective tool to check out your physical attractiveness for her. If there is none, she cannot have a high interest level in you. It is better to find out sooner, rather than to make a bitter discovery later, when you care for her much more. Using the body language, it is possible to guess the outcome – if she’ll flinch, or not. But you have to understand the body language. Therefore, always try to kiss her – she won’t shoot you for this. Only, when her interest level is high, don’t kiss her on the first date and let her “to die with a desire for your kiss”. In your case, it has a time. For now remember this, never ask for permission – show her the self-confidence.
When you hesitate to kiss her for too long, she can easily interpret this as a low interest level and drop you. Holding by hands was a signal she likes you physically, but the kiss was missing.
When she asked about your previous relationships, she gave you a personal question. The personal question might indicate high interest level. Might, not do. She was testing, or looking for an excuse to wrap the “low-level sentence”. I don’t know, which variant it was, but for sure she did not had the high interest level after your answer. She would not reject the long-term relationship idea otherwise. The higher the interest level goes, the more she wants to be with you. She did exactly the opposite thing – turned you into a friend.
I don’t tell you to lie about your previous relationships, nor I say to tell her any details. Rather stick with general facts, such as you’re with her now and you have no desire to live in the past. She really does not want to listen about your drawbacks – she wants a positive man. So, be such one and you’ll last longer.
It is sad, she proposed another date right away. That’s what we call the false illusion. When she said “I don’t want a long-term relationship now”, she “forget” to add “with you”. In that case, she would be right. If she’s OK for you as a friend, go for it. However, if she is Miss right, it won’t grow into a long-term relationship. And other than Right is not worth it. Rather try to look after some other girls. That’s the best thing you can do for yourself at the moment.
SomeoneCZ
A boy too shy. A boy who wants to be a real man. A boy who has the problem to talk to a woman he is interested in. Precisely, so much interested so that he cannot find the words. It is an every-day reality. Out there, there are some guys who are too shy to talk to women they like. So, what are they going to do about it? It is easy! There are self-help courses on how to increase your self-confidence, so that you can finally talk to a woman you like.
Now, let's look at the self-help courses closely. What's the point? You should train the talking with other women. With your friends, shop assistants and old ladies buying rolls. As the saying of Russian generalissimo Suvorov goes: "Train hard, fight easy.". From this point of view, everything is fine, so what's the problem?
The reason of this problem is that you have high interest level in this particular woman and you don't want to loose her. You are looking for a way to get her without the risk of loosing. And because the odds, that she will not have enough of high interest level in you, are quite high, you discard the option of talking to her, which would show her true interest swiftly and with no mercy.
Look guys, when you are talking to other women like the ones mentioned above, you are talking to women you don't have high interest level in. Therefore, you don't practice the required self-control (to suppress the fear of a rejection), as there's no emotional pressure coming from the the possibility of the rejection. That's why a lot of people pray for such courses - they are merciful to their egos. And correct me, if I'm wrong, but haven't you already talked to people in your life? ;-)
Some of these courses have additives like improving the look, emphasizing the positive thinking, being gallant, etc., which are all fine, but you still gotta talk to her.
All these courses end at the same point, where they started. Right prior talking to a woman you have high interest level in and you're not sure, how she feels about you. To quote Mr. Spock, logic dictates that if you take such course instead of talking to her, you are going to loose her for sure, while talking to her gives you at least some chance to succeed. So, stop wasting your time and do what's necessary.
Go to her, say hello, talk about something happening near you, so you can make a compliment on her mind, not the look, make her smile and ask for the phone number. That's all it takes. Not every woman will have the high interest level in you, so stop assuming that. Every guy gets rejected from time to time. Only fools don't admit the truth.
From time to time, I ran across a text stating that it is impossible to give a good advice on dating, because nobody's the same (Hey, guys - do you want any loony mercenary, or do you want the good one? ;-). Both, man and woman, make these statements. I just wonder why - why they have the problem to see the effects of learning everywhere. As a small baby, you learn as you interact with your environment. Do you remember your mama talking to you? In the elementary school, you learn to read and write, the math, the basics of physics and you pass exams. Did you ever had a problem with computer you've solved using the knowledge available on the Internet? Well, all of this is an example of extelligence [1]. Did you ever heard a story of your grandpa, how he met your grandma? That's just another example of the extelligence.
Humans exist on this planet for a long time. But I don't even need all that time to show the idea. For past several thousand years, people live in a civilization. Yes, they varied through the time, but they defined social behavior of people. And the social interactions included, yet still include, dating. Woman and man get together, optionally have babies, and stay together til death or the low interest (to stay with each other) do them part.
Looking closer at the human dating habits, we can see a repeating set of behavioral patterns, which can be shown by someone, who understand them. For instance, a girl with positive interest in you asks you personal question to get to know you. This is a behavioral pattern. See? It is not necessary to re-invent the wheel, if the extelligence can provide you with the required information. All what's required is that you're intellignet enough to understand that it is actually possible and to understand the information itself. That's all it takes. Of course, and the will to do it:-)
My preferred examples of such knowledge is DocLove's The System - The Dating Dictionary [2] and by me written The Theory of Interest [3], which partly comes from DocLove's knowledge, experience of my friends (the extelligence strikes again:-), some other sources and of course from my own practice and thoughts.
The System couches you to get the good one (woman) to which The Theory of Interest refers as to the one that is compliant with its seventh part aka Miss Right. Both works use the term interest level, The System's one ranges from zero (none interest whatsoever) to 100% (love), while The Theory of Interest uses boundaries -100% (hate) to 100% (love). They are compatible (DocLove's 50% equals to mine 0%) and in future writing, I'll use mine notation, because I'm little bit into the math and such notation allow more clear writing, when I apply some other rules onto this. If I'll ever do so here:-)
Čas od času někde narazím na text ve kterém jeho autor/ka zasvěceně píše, že je nemožné dát dobrou radu ohledně vztahů, protože každý je jiný (a vy chcete každého, nebo jenom toho, kdo za to stojí?;-). Občas mi to ještě udivuje - nevidí snad, že už jako malé dítě se naučili své mateřštině, protože na ně mluvili? Nenaučili je v základní škole číst, počítat a psát společně i se základy fyziky? Nikdy nepoužili Internet, aby našli řešení ke svému problému? Tohle všechno jsou ukázky exteligence [1]. Povídal vám někdy děda o tom, jak se seznámil s babičkou? Další příklad exteligence.
Lidé už na téhle planetě žijí nějakou tu dlouhou dobu a abych ukázal, o co mi jde, nebudu ani potřebovat tolik času. Posledních pár tisíc let žijeme v nějaké civilizaci. Ano, říše se zvedaly a padaly do prachu zapomnění, nicméně i tak definovaly sociální chování lidí. Jejich interakce zahrnovaly, a ještě zahrnují, randění/svádění/namlouvání/vztahy. Muži a ženy se dávají dohromady, někdy mají i děti, a zůstávají spolu, dokud je smrt, nebo nízký zájem (být s tím druhým) nerozdělí.
Když se blíže podíváme na jejich počínání, uvidíme opakující se vzory jejich interakcí - chování, které vám může ukázat někdo, kdo jim rozumí. Například, žena s kladným zájmem vám bude klást osobní otázky, aby vás lépe poznala. To je vzor chování. Vidíte? Není nutné znovu vynalézat vynalezené, když vám exteligence může dodat potřebné informace. Pouze je třeba, aby jste dokázali pochopit, že je to možné, a aby jste dokázali pochopit samotnou informaci. To je vše. Tedy až na vůli udělat, co je třeba:-)
Moje preferované ukázky takových znalostí jsou The System - The Dating Dictionary [2] od Doc Love a mnou sepsaná Teorie zájmu [3], která částečně vychází právě z [2], zkušeností mých přátel (Zase ta exteligence:-), několika dalších zdrojů a samozřejmě z mé praxe a mých úvah.
The System vás vede k získání té dobré, kterou popisuje Teorie zájmu v sedmém díle, případně ji označuje jako slečnu Správnou. Obě práce používají výši zájmu k určení zájmu být s tím druhým. The System má meze od nuly (totální nezájem) do 100% (láska), zatímco Teorie zájmu používá rozsah od -100% (nenávist) do 100% (láska). Obě jsou kompatibilní (50% u DocLove odpovídá nule Teorie zájmu). V dalším psaní budu používat notaci Teorie zájmu, protože nemůžu vyloučit, že udělám nějakou tu matematickou úvahu a tenhle zápis je pak přehlednější. Pokud ji ovšem zde vůbec někdy udělám:-)
References
- Ian Stewart and Jack Cohen, "Figments of Reality", Cambridge University Press 1997, ISBN: 0-521-57155-3 / 978-0-521-57155-5 (UK edition)
- Thomas Hodges aka DocLove, "The System - The Dating Dictionary", AskMen.com Solutions 2004, http://www.doclove.com/, ISBN: 0973449501
- Someone aka SomeoneCZ, "Teorie zájmu" aka "TZ" ("The Theory of Interest"), http://www.svadeni.cz/, Published through first half of 2007
